Fictional Universes

George Samuel Kirk: Delete

2008-08-18T23:34:58.0018Z

You've already created both the father and son character topics, nothing else of worth as this is merely a disambiguation page.

Scott Peterson: Split

2008-07-25T18:57:13.0017Z

I don't think this particular Scott Peterson is a TV Writer.

Special Agent Dale Cooper: same character

2008-07-25T18:50:29.0017Z

different topics were created for the same character that appeared in the TV show and the film - these should be merged

Yale University: yale college and yale university?

2008-07-24T14:54:09.0000Z

Wikipedia tends to classify by the broadest institution, so there are a lot of actors associated with Yale University instead of the drama school. I think it's fine that we start with the lower-precision classification and as data becomes available, replace it with the more specific.

Umpire: Film character and fictional character should be split off

2008-07-23T15:25:33.0012Z

These refer to a specific instance of "Umpire" as a character in a film and should be moved to a distinct topic.

Employer in fiction: Related question

2008-07-21T17:57:51.0000Z

Why not just use the fictional employer type?

Number Eight: Nice

2008-07-20T12:05:32.0012Z

She is really nice actress!!

Julius Caesar: I don't see why this should be split

2008-07-18T19:20:28.0014Z

This is the generic Julius Caesar, not for a specific Caesar fictionalization.

Louis Napoleon Bonaparte: Don't delete...Millions of French people will get very mad at us...

2008-07-16T23:24:00.0000Z

Hee, yes, don't want to upset the French ;)

Louis Napoleon Bonaparte: Don't delete...Millions of French people will get very mad at us...

2008-07-16T07:13:45.0012Z

I've undone most of the edits that had inadvertently transformed N.B. I into N.B. III so lets keep this VIP on the site and visible to all (be they Francophiles or not).

Employer in fiction: Related question

2008-07-09T18:14:30.0012Z

Sure - I'll put it in our queue.

Employer in fiction: Related question

2008-07-09T12:53:03.0000Z

Thank you! Could you add a property for staff/faculty/teachers?

Fictional Character: Education?

2008-07-08T23:49:00.0000Z

I've done this, but without separating the fictional topics from the real-world topics: http://www.freebase.com/tools/schema/fictional_universe/school_in_fiction.

Employer in fiction: Related question

2008-07-08T23:48:21.0005Z

Here you go: http://www.freebase.com/tools/schema/fictional_universe/school_in_fiction

Web designer: Mistake!

2008-07-08T01:28:34.0005Z

Too bad there's no way to unflag a topic...

Employer in fiction: Related question

2008-07-07T20:10:05.0000Z

Thank you, jeff!

Employer in fiction: Related question

2008-07-07T18:52:38.0000Z

This is the second request for this in something like a week. There isn't currently a type for this, but I'll add a task for it to my list of things to do!

Dagny Taggart: Duplicate of existing Dagny Taggart topic

2008-07-07T16:43:56.0000Z

Merge, don't delete.

Employer in fiction: Related question

2008-07-05T16:33:26.0005Z

Is there anything like this for modelling fictional students of real schools/universities? e.g. Tom Brown went to Rugby and Oxford.

Employer in fiction: Fictional Universe property?

2008-07-01T17:41:25.0000Z

I understand your point, and from a certain perspective, it would be the most accurate way to model fictional things. We actually had modeled fictional settings this way, for the same arguments (e.g., the London of the Sherlock Holmes stories is not the same London as in the film "About a Boy", even though they're both fairly realistic portrayals of the actual city, which is again not the same thing). But it turned out to be extremely cumbersome for users, and hard for many people, even experienced data-modelers, to really understand. So everyone pretty much just used the actual locations for the fictional settings. I worry that the same thing would happen with employers and education. It would also result in an extremely large number of instances of Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, and Yale, each pertaining to a single universe.

Fictional Character: Education?

2008-07-01T05:36:32.0000Z

I would prefer that the fictional topic be seperate from the real-world topic. i.e. University of Cambridge in the James Bond Universe be a seperate topic from the real University of Cambridge.
Perhaps 'educational institution in fiction' could have a 'based upon' property to link the fictional and real-world topics?

Employer in fiction: Fictional Universe property?

2008-07-01T05:33:16.0000Z

Surely the fictional employer should be a seperate topic?
e.g. James Bond works for MI6. MI6, as a fictional employer in the James Bond universe, should be a seperate topic from the real-life MI6. If the two were together it wouldn't be clean and could be very confusing.

Perhaps a 'based on' property, similar to that of the fictional character type, is required for the fictional employer?

Employer in fiction: Fictional Universe property?

2008-06-30T19:45:20.0012Z

In principle I think it's a good idea, but I think we left the property off originally because a lot of fictional characters are said to have worked for real-world employers, and having the fictional universe property on those topics might be a bit strange. Although with the current client UI, this might be less weird.

Fictional Character: Education?

2008-06-30T19:42:21.0012Z

An "educational institution in fiction" type could work -- we've used that locution a few times for types that can have both fictional and real-world instances.

Fictional Universes: Planned Characters which were never included in the published version

2008-06-28T21:40:47.0012Z

I wouldn't add them myself. We do include deleted scene performances in films but do not attempt to capture in Freebase performances planned but never written/performed/filmed, that's datum that is just too nebulous and conceptual. I would consider including characters and concepts that were in a published work that were edited out in subsequent editions.

If you really feel it is important to capture this, you could create a new type for Unrealized Fictional Character and have as an enumerated property the status: edited out/never written/occurs in work destroyed/unsubstantiated claim...

Fictional Universes: Planned Characters which were never included in the published version

2008-06-28T16:50:37.0005Z

I've been busy and have been extracting all the characters of Atlas Shrugged from the topic 'List of Characters in Atlas Shrugged' (http://www.freebase.com/view/en/characters_in_atlas_shrugged)

However, there are a couple of characters (listed at the bottom of the wikipedia article) who never appeared in the published work. They were cut by the author and are irrelevant to the final story.

How do I represent their unpublished/cut status?

Should I be adding them to the book's fictional universe?

Fictional Character: Education?

2008-06-28T13:47:06.0005Z

Could we have some way of linking in the educational background of a character? i.e. an education property.

My first thought was that we would need a 'Fictional Educational Institution' type, but that would not cover characters who were educated at real world institutions. e.g. James Bond at the University of Cambridge.

I think we therefore need an 'educational institution for fictional characters' type for the property.

Employer in fiction: Fictional Universe property?

2008-06-28T13:39:26.0005Z

Could we add a fictional universe property, so that the employer can be linked to the correct fictional universe?

Possibly also a fictional works, so all works which mention this employer can be credited?

Dagny Taggart: Duplicate of existing Dagny Taggart topic

2008-06-28T12:06:11.0007Z

duplicate

Fictional Universes: Possible properties for fictional setting...

2008-06-17T01:40:17.0012Z

I'm interested in the filming location for fictional settings. See the Fictional Settings Real Places domain I set up here. The question is, assuming this seems like useful information, whether the types/properties I've created there should reside in the Fictional Universe domain instead?

Fictional Universes: Naming Fictional Characters

2008-05-14T19:05:50.0000Z

duck1123's types sort of do this but their names have are somewhat subjective (e.g., "primary") and therefore not as useful as they could be. Also see the third linked Batman topic. That redundant topic has an "Alternate persona" type that contains info that should really be linked to the first Batman topic but can't because that one is attributed with Bruce Wayne characteristics.

I prefer the way that Barbara Gordon is described compared to the way that Batman is described. For the most part, Barbara Gordon is a character that is distinct from Catwoman and Oracle but linked to them through alternate identies. I would just rename "Primary identity" to "Identity".

Primary identity is important in terms of who is most commonly associated with the other identity. There should be a way to distinquish that Bruce Wayne is the primary identity of Batman and not Jean-Paul Valley. However, that info may be better pulled from the data in terms of # of story lines or similar value. For example, who is the primary identity of Witchblade throughout history?

Fictional Universes: Naming Fictional Characters

2008-05-14T17:33:33.0007Z

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't "an identity type with an alter ego property that links multiple identities" essentially what duck1123's types do?

One "primary identity" with multiple superhero identities seems pretty straightforward: see Barbara Gordon. But the more complicated issue is when one superhero identity is assumed by multiple people. Is the Batman of "Batman Beyond" (Bruce Wayne's son in that continuity) really the same as the original Batman? And is either the same as the Batman persona assumed by Jean-Paul Valley while Batman/Wayne was temporarily out of commission?

The question of alternate-Earth Batmen seems more straightforward -- different characters with different alternate identities. So the alternate Batmen would have alternate identies of Earth-One Bruce Wayne and Earth-Two Bruce Wayne as appropriate.

I agree that pseudonyms are different than this. I think Faye's suggestion was simply that common use should determine the topic name, which I think is the right answer if we use the simpler model. But I'm inclined toward the alteregos model if we think it can work.

Fictional Universes: Naming Fictional Characters

2008-05-14T03:07:13.0000Z

IMO, all egos deserve their own topic pages. How about something like an identity type with an alter ego property that links multiple identities? "Primary identity" would then be determined through other properties and the purpose of the declaration. This would allow Batman to have properties that are distinct from those of Bruce Wayne but they are still linked through an informative property.

Batman is a good case. Many of his story lines focus on whether Batman or Bruce Wayne is the primary identity. Both could be considered "secret identities". One is a caped crusader, the other is a public figure and never the 'tween shall meet (except in the Bat Cave, which is neutral ground).

I would not attribute Batman as the owner of Wayne Industries. Whether or not Bruce Wayne could be considered a superhero or detective is a matter of debate.

On the flip side, citizens of Gotham are curious about the secret identity of Batman and they don't know to be curious about a secret identity of Bruce Wayne.

Sting is an interesting case.. I don't really see Sting as an alter ego of Gordon Sumner. Sting is just a pseudonym/alias. Compare that situation to the acting roles that Sting/Sumner has played in film and television.

There are some superheroes that have multiple “primary identities”, and some “primary identities” have donned the costumes of multiple superheroes. Does the model handle those cases? It sort of does but not that well. See Batman vs Batman vs. Batman. Maybe addressing these situations could help refine the model.

Fictional Universes: Naming Fictional Characters

2008-05-14T00:31:47.0007Z

Personally (and I stress personally because it's by no means any kind of standard), I think it makes sense to use the better known name as the name of a topic. I apply this principle to real people as well as fictional characters. Additional names can always be added as topic aliases ("also known as").

There's a practical side to it. People are more likely to talk about (and search for) "Spider-Man", "Mark Twain", and "Sting" by these names, than by the lesser known "Peter Parker", " Samuel Clemens", and "Gordon Sumner". There's less information associated with the lesser known names. As an unfair example, I just searched for music on Amazon using "Gordon Sumner", and not surprisingly none of Sting's well-known albums showed up.

Fictional Universes: Naming Fictional Characters

2008-05-14T00:01:30.0000Z

I don't think there's a standard for this at all. User duck1123 has created a few types that can equate alter egos to each other. See his types Primary Identity and Alternate Persona.

Fictional Universes: Naming Fictional Characters

2008-05-13T23:38:27.0012Z

Is there a preference on what the main name of a Fictional Character topic such be? Does alias or superhero name take precedence over real name?

Fictional Character: Add property: Date of Birth

2008-04-29T23:55:30.0000Z

Well there is somthing like that by user duck1123

Should it be a topic-based property or simply a text-based propert (there are some topics existing for some of the more well-known alter-IDs).

Fictional Character: Add property: Date of Birth

2008-04-29T23:19:45.0007Z

How about an alter-ego property? This would come in handy for superheroes. Seems that this is being stuck on as an alias right now, but there are enough superheroes that it might as well be a property, right?

Fictional Universe: Created by?

2008-04-07T21:28:19.0007Z

Go wild. I've added the property and a new type, "fictional universe creator".

Fictional Universe: Created by?

2008-04-07T15:16:24.0012Z

+1 on this request ... I was playing around with the Dune Universe, and I thought it strange that we could not enter Frank Herbert as the creator of the fictional universe.

Fictional Universes: let's not conflate the work of fiction with it's universe...

2008-03-27T22:43:02.0007Z

It's a bit of a judgement call, well known (ie fictional works that have inspired a myriad of fan-fiction and/or authorized novelizations of cannon-based/non-canon storylines) tend to have a topic instance already in existence...Firefly might have an existing 'verse but I couldn't find that Brazil has one.

One could mark the Brazil topic for a split or better yet we can remove the fictional universe type association as it seems to have little value at this time.

The Simpsons topic is based originally upon a Wikipedia article that is about the TV show, history, cultural impact other media, etc...It almost is a universe topic, just heavily weighted towards the TV series aspect. It can easily be marked as a split, but as is, it could remain a multi-typed topic.

Yale University: yale college and yale university?

2008-03-27T22:13:29.0017Z

Or, I suppose you could argue that everyone should be linked to the University itself, but I think that's less useful in the long run (if I'm interested in directors who went to the Yale School of Drama, I'd rather query that than to have to filter Yale Univ. grads by degree [MFA] and field of study [directing, drama, acting, etc.]).

Yale University: yale college and yale university?

2008-03-27T22:10:34.0022Z

It does complicate queries, it's true. Ideally everyone would be linked to the school they graduated from. That said, it's useful to be able to say that someone graduated from Yale University, even if you don't know which school they attended.

Yale University: yale college and yale university?

2008-03-27T21:26:57.0012Z

This is the case, although it complicates queries. Also, many alumni are linked to the university even though they attended Yale College.

Fictional Universes: let's not conflate the work of fiction with it's universe...

2008-03-27T04:34:06.0007Z

I'm seeing this a lot (Firefly, The Simpsons, Brazil, etc). Are the statements above still valid, and should we have separate universes for all of these?

Fictional Setting: Fictional Location

2008-03-24T20:38:03.0000Z

This is a good point; "fictional setting" should include those fictional locations that aren't actually used as a setting, assuming that they are of sufficient interest for someone to enter, despite the fact that the name is "setting" rather than "location".

Fictional Setting: Fictional Location

2008-03-23T20:39:54.0007Z

I agree. One problem is that not all fictional locations are settings of stories. They may just be reffered to in fiction, for example.

Yale University: yale college and yale university?

2008-02-14T23:16:00.0007Z

As near as I can tell, Yale College is the undergraduate college of Yale University, and should therefore be made a constituent school of Yale, along with Yale Law School, Yale School of Drama, etc., which I've now done.

Yale University: yale college and yale university?

2008-02-14T21:56:01.0012Z

shouldn't these two be merged?

-chris

Fictional Setting: Fictional Location

2007-12-12T18:06:25.0000Z

This was a deliberate choice on our part. We chose the name "fictional setting" because it's accurate for all places that appear in works of fiction -- San Francisco is the setting of many works of fiction, but it is not itself a fictional place. "Fictional location" would only be accurate for wholly imaginary places like Middle Earth or the planet Vulcan.